I retired from personal blogging in July 2008 but you can find me over at blog.xero.com
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Chatting to a couple of people who know a bit about things carrier today we got into a discussion on when the iPhone will officially come to NZ. We have a few more in our office and I know a lot of non-tech people who are running iPhones on the VodafoneNZ network. Best guess is there are about 2500 iPhones on the network already.
While I’m sure Vodafone NZ would love to have the iPhone officially that ball is very much in Apples court. The problem is that Apple’s model is to select one network operator as preferred vendor and the rest are shut out.
Apple demands a clip of the ticket for all services delivered over the handset, even if they’re handset independent, so Vodafone Music Store, Live! and other existing services and relationships create an issue.
The iPhone is therefore much more attractive to challenger Telco’s with little investment in their own content deals.
So is Telecom the logical choice? Well the iPhone may not work on their network as the 3G iPhone is rumoured to run on 2100MHz or 900MHz and not on 850MHz.
So this will be an interesting one to watch as everyone jockeys for position later in 2008. The question becomes can the big boys even be in the race. And given the number of iPhones already in NZ and Voda’s relaxed attitude so far, does it even matter?
blog
Well according to the saleperson at the Apple store in Wellington it won’t ever happen. Apple want a cut which Vodafone won’t do, but Vodafone want their software on the phone at startup which Apple won’t do….
Guy
Well when the next gen iPhone comes out I will be very interested in getting one. The existing model is already a collection of usability epiphanies, but having had it out in the real world for a year means Apple will have heaps of awesome user feedback. This means the second model will be another significant step forward, after which there will be a diminishing return in terms of improvements.
So, I too am very interested in whether telecom or vodafone will step up. I personally don’t know heaps about Vodafone’s music stores etc, but it seems best left to a large company like Apple rather than to duplicate it. As you suggest, it seems compelling for a third party to come in and become essentially the iPhone telco, knowing full well it will be a massive attractor to consumers and have the protection of exclusivity in New Zealand.
It’s a bit like what can happen the Airbus release new planes that can travel long distance and still use Wellington’s current short airport. Supposedly hundreds of these planes have been ordered by Asia/Pacific airlines and so even if Qantas and Airnz dilly dally with setting up direct flights between Wellington and the US East Coast/Asia, other companies will jump at the chance. The Wellington Airport site suggests just a single Hong KongWgtn flight daily means 130,000+ internation visitors a year. That’s a nice boost the economy. I’m sure the same notion applies to finally getting iPhones in New Zealand AND having them have affordable and continuous internet connectivity.
Best left to a large company like Apple…
uhm, the Vodafone NZ online music store is the number one seller of music singles by a long way… it beats out the Apple iTunes store in NZ, it beats out the real world stores like The Warehouse.
Besides, if we left things to the big companies then where would Xero be?
Cheers
Paul
Having had an iPhone for a week now, I think the revolution just got going and we’re just about to enter a new phase of mobile data that will change the way that “customers” require access to services. Smart people have worked this out and we’re seeing a change in the way that data is stored; the PC is dead, long live the cloud.
Paul,
I would be extremely impressed if Vodafone sells more music in NZ than iTunes or The Warehouse. Do you have a citation for that?
I would be quite disappointed in you if you’re being selective and referring only to singles and not to all music. While that would still be slightly surprising to me it would be far less impressive as both The Warehouse and iTunes primarily sell music in the form of albums, not singles.
Perhaps we will see the iPhone introduced through a new VMO, such as Orcon, who would be using Vodafones GSM900/UMTS2100 infrastructure with their own services and billing on top. A VMO would likely be far less worried about how the handset is branded, and as they would not necessarily be the content provider anyway, may be less resistant to sharing some of the revenue with Apple. My guess is that consumers would likely pay a premium for iPhone service anyway, so that may well cover Apples cut anyway.
Telecom NZ’s GSM/UMTS network is 2100MHz 3G in major cities and 850MHz GSM everywhere else.
A 3G iPhone is only any good if you’ve got great 3G coverage since the drop back to GPRS is too slow. Telecom have an advantage here in that their new network will apparently roll out EDGE of their 850MHz GSM network so it could be workable.
The ultimate however would be a 3G iPhone that does quad band GSM (850+800+1800+1900) and tri band 3G (850+900+2100). With Vodafone NZ’s 900MHz 3G network (which will be the biggest in the world) about to go live and plans from European carriers to deploy 900MHz 3G networks where licencing allow, and 850MHz 3G deployed in the USA and Australia Apple would have to be aware that rolling out a 3G iPhone that only caters for the 2100MHz market will be quite limiting.
I can’t see Vodafone ever getting the iPhone. It would have to be a deal as part of the entire Group and Arun Sarin has told us he thinks the iPhone is a piece of junk.
Hi Bruce,
I said music singles, not music, for a reason. The Warehouse still outsells us on albums but that will change as people get used to the idea. We already charge less… customers just need time to get used to the idea.
The only story I’ve seen on it was by Jon Hoyle at the Dominion Post and of course Stuff hides all its archives so I can’t link to it. I am confident in the figures however. RIANZ puts the information together.
But that wasn’t really the point of my comment - I was rebutting a comment about music being best left to a large company like Apple. That’s wrong on two levels - one, the supposition that small companies can’t do things well (sorry, Rod. Pack up now, mate) and the second, that Apple would sell more than Vodafone because it’s a bigger company (and I guess a third one, that Apple is bigger than Vodafone. I don’t know how you would measure such a thing but I’d put them both in the “big company” bracket).
Cheers
Paul
I’m in the market for a new phone - my current nokia has decided that only wants to ring sometimes - which is weird and as a programmer seems like the sort of thing I ought to be able to fix
It also sets the time automatically from the network when I land in LAX/SFO but not in AKL - again seems like something I should be able to fix ….
Finally I run an Asterisk telephone exchange at home - my US and NZ phone numbers both ring in it - I can access it anywhere on the planet that there’s a net connection - great when I’m travelling …. and if my cellphone handset had wifi I could use it and avoid paying my cell provider whenever I was near a good wifi …. and more importantly only ever have a single handset, even in my office/home …. if only I could hack it into my phone ….
Well I’m sure you can understand what I’m getting at here - I want a phone I can hack - the iphone’s pretty close (needs more storage, I want to replace my ipod too) provided I can continue to break into it …. being stuck with Telecom again would suck (and without true number portability would be pointless)
Just the other day someone from Vodaphone called up and asked me about my current plan that was running out …. I was completely serious when I said that access to iphones and/or other hackable handsets was my number 1 criteria - he didn’t want to know - and kind of left me wondering if a switch to Telecom might not make sense ….
(other potential platforms at the moment are the high and Nokias and the next generation Open-Moko phone ….)
Paul Brislen said…
I was rebutting a comment about music being best left to a large company like Apple.
But a large company usually have superior technology, simply because they can afford to allocate a large budget for R&D to develop competitive technology. In saying that, it doesn’t mean that small vendors can’t compete.
I think that what Bruce meant by Apple is bigger than Vodafone is to state that Vodafone’s domain of expertise in this market is smaller compared to Apple. It’s similar if we compare Google to Microsoft in terms of the search market. Google is bigger than Microsoft in that domain, however Microsoft is currently bigger in terms of their market valuation & capitalization.
I don’t know if Apple has introduced content-based music recommendation yet, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re currently developing it. Amazon still uses the user-ratings, past sales history & text-based annotated-tags search for music recommendation and I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re working on developing one or trying to acquire the technology for content-based music recommendation from somewhere (perhaps an off the shelf product from a vendor).
Content-based music recommendation is far superior to one that uses user-ratings, past sales history or text-based annotated-tags search, since it is much closer to how human categorizes digital audio files according to their signal’s intrinsic characteristics (ie, frequency spectrum-wise). The dominant market for music recommendation (current/future) is/will be content-based. Such technology also allows one to query by humming a song (if the machine or PC has a recording device), where songs with similar tunes are retrieved.
Paul, if Vodafone doesn’t use a music recommendation engine, then look at the following vendors products, which are the best out there for content-based music recommendation.
- Bmat
- DoubleV3
However, if Vodafone wish to develop the technology in-house, then I can point out to your developers of what open sources tools & algorithms to use. You need a machine learning API (the popular Waikato University WEKA tool is the best out there) for signal & pattern classification and also a digital processing API that includes a wavelet package (Stanford’s WaveLab tool is the best tool out there) to be used in decomposing of music & digital audio files into signal features (spectrum) to be indexed into a different database (extracted features database) where the features are used as inputs into the machine learning algorithms for retrieval & recommendation during query time. Both Bmat & DoubleV3’s music recommendation engine products use machine learnings & wavelets algorithms.
PS : If Ferrit wanted to approve the development of a customized automated online content-based music recommendation engine in 2005, then I would have developed the engine for them to be used by their developers in their online store. Perhaps they went for an off the shelf product (not sure about this). I am also not sure if Ferrit still has an interest in this type of technology or not (either customized development or off the shelf product), but perhaps they’re just watching if other similar vendors are adopting the technology.
The patent stalkers must have a fair bit of time on their hands but they do come up with some interesting bits every now and then.
http://www.unwiredview.com/2008/03/17/iphone-20-iphone-30-or-iphone-nano-a-clamshellflip-phone/
Also, does it matter any more which telco gets the iPhone:
http://gizmodo.com/366751/iphone-20-unlocked-runs-all-apps
Roll on June with WWDC and iPhone SDK
Iphone, ? check out this, it is better and no binding telco phone rates, just data transmission and open source…
This product Nokia N810, offers linux & skype. No need for a landline phone and telco acct… There was an excellent article in the Wired Test magazine, as well as the recent Wired issue, with this gadget ranked at #2 best product. Some links to it attached.
http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/17/nokia-n810-gets-official/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_N810
http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS3669465936.html
@Dave Mac
I’m not so sure. You’re forgetting that the iPhone is a stunning piece of design. It’s incredibly sexy, not to mention how it actually functions when you use it. It’s just a beautiful thing.
Sure, your n810 might do all that the iPhone can - possibly more, but it’s worth noting that it probably doesn’t do it in nearly the same elegant, well thought out, cohesive and spellbinding way. The n810 comes across as just another faceless, personality lacking device. The iPhone is in a different league.
For some, they won’t care about all that and they’ll buy the n810. But i’d wager that the majority will be won over by the iPhone.
For me, just get the damn things here. I’m with vodafone at the moment but i’d happily switch out to another company if the offered the iPhone.
Apologies @Paul, but I don’t want Vodafone’s software on my phone, so it’d be a blessing not to have their music store or their icons or their startup stuff. Give me Apples one any day. But i think because of all the things that voda want to cram into ‘their’ phones, a smaller player will come up and snatch the contract should there be one.
Bring on mid-year with the updated iphone, and if a carrier hasn’t sorted out their toys by then, i’ll just order up one from the states, hack it, and enjoy a new world of mobile while the big players continue to try and get organised.
I don’t mind that it won’t have visual voicemail or some of the other features on offer it if were backed by a carrier. It’s a damn site sexier and more usable than my Sony Ericsson, it works like my mac, it syncs with itunes and fits into my workflow and other hard/software like a charm.
Bring it on!
Personally, I’m expecting Telecom to do an O2 style deal to get the iPhone for AAPT in Australia, with New Zealand as a tacked on bonus to launch their GSM network. I am expecting the phone to be available on Telecom’s network regardless of the presence of a 3G iphone.
I understand that while Telecom will have a UMTS network in the major centers, they won’t want to give up the roaming business represented by GSM phones without 3G. I expect to see a regular GSM network in the major centers as well.
Vodafone tends to do global deals, so I doubt that they will have the flexibility locally to do a deal with Apple.
The currently available 2.5G iPhone doesn’t make the cut for me personally, me being used to “proper” 3G speed with both my n93 and my Vodem. Unfortunately there’s no GSM competition in New Zealand, as with broadband, as with some other stuff as well and that creates a dramatic lack of innovation, reasonable tariffs etc. I don’t see Apple coming up with a CDMA iPhone in the future, I’m sure they will go for a GSM/UMTS-based 3G model.
But really - why is everybody so keen on officially having the iPhone available in NZ? The only benefit I could see is that it would be legalised by the network operator, i.e. one (particularly non-geek users) would not have to hack it to make it work. To be honest, I would probably still hack mine because I find Apple’s restrictive model absolutely annoying. But my point is - the network operator’s subsidy for a new phone together with a new contract or the 24 months renewal of an existing contract is a joke anyway (I can just speak for VF where I know how to compare the pricing of the GSM models with other countries) in New Zealand. When I bought my n93, I got it via my employer at that time for the dealer buy price, that was obviously a good deal. But - it would have been even slightly cheaper at that time to get my parents in Europe to buy the phone for me (without a contract) and have it shipped down here by them, not even to mention the pricing with a new contract. The reality is the phones are heavily overpriced in New Zealand, so if people want an iPhone, get it from the US or via a parallel importer.
Hey there I have a 8gb iPhone running 1.1.2 I am able to put my Vodafone sim in and it connects to vodafones gprs network however with the the charges through connecting through gprs I am wanting to know how I can run my phone on the vodafone gsm network??
Any ideas would be much appreciated.
I have tried adjusting the EDGE settings (APN settings) but it’s still only connecting through gprs nerwork.
Regards
Mariana