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Posted by rod@drury.net.nz in Apple, Communications at 11:54 am on Friday, 15 February 2008
Great link from Greg on this stunningly simple Starbucks ordering system.
http://www.genoco.com/link/interactive_quickOrder.html
This is a great example of the sorts of applications we should be writing and testing in New Zealand but our expensive mobile data charges inhibit innovation in this space. The guys at Foo last week whipped up a very cool conference schedule in just a few minutes so we have plenty of skills.
Roll on Meraki.
Publishers note: this post does not endorse Starbucks in any way :)
blog
Rod, I think you’ll find Vodafone’s data pricing is some of the cheapest around. Six gigabytes of data on our mobile network costs $79.95, which is LESS than Telecom Xtra charges for 6GB of data (including the phone line of course) on its fixed line network.
There really isn’t much else out there that’s cheaper than that in terms of mobile data. I’m not counting wi-fi here as that’s a different proposition, but mobile data in New Zealand can be very cost effective.
Also from April we’ll be upgrading our network speeds to HSPA - so expect to see a theoretical maximum of 7.2Mbit/s download and (more importantly for business) an upload speed measured in megabits not kilobits.
Cheers
Paul Brislen
Vodafone External Communications Manager
While I normally agree with you on the mobile costs thing, this (as presented) has no need for any wireless component. Just a 2D barcode scanner. WIFI would also work, assuming you could get on without config.
It’s a really nice demo tho.
If you didn’t know them already, say hello to Polar Bear Farm:
http://www.polarbearfarm.com/
Christchurch based. *Native* iPhone application developers. They were at Foo also.
Ask them about their MacWorld exhibition story.
–Phil.
I may have mentioned this before, but New Zealand’s mobile data is not expensive - far from it. Vodafone sells 6GB of data for $79.95/month. Telecom’s Xtra offers 6GB of data on a fixed line network for around $90 (including line rental).
It’s also just as fast as fixed line in most areas with an upgrade to 7.2Mbit/s download and (more importantly for business) an upload speed of 2Mbit/s coming in April.
Cheers
Paul Brislen
Vodafone External Communications Manager
Sorry for the double up… I was listed as spam.
Can you imagine! PR comments… listed as spam!
A-mazing.
It’s a bit desperate comparing prices to “I don’t know any better so please rip me off” XTRA.
Also, you’re being dishonest in that you can’t get a bare data plan with Vodafone, you have to have a voice plan as well. If you’re going to include Telecom line rental then you need to include the Vodafone voice plan as well.
DSL is hampered by having to pay Telecom $40 for a phone line, but even so you can get 14 GB for $80/month with other ISPs (e.g. xnet), and additional GB are $1 each.
On TelstraClear cable, $80 will get you a 20 GB/month account plus an extra 3 GB or so at $3/GB.
What’s the *next* 6 GB cost you on Vodafone?
yeah - I agree with Bruce - I was paying $90/month with Telstra for 40GB at 10meg/2meg - with NO phoneline attached. Telecom xtra is shockingly priced, maybe try comparing with a company which has both good prices and GREAT service - I’d recommend xnet / worldxchange. $79/month for managed data plans INCLUDING the phoneline.
Oh, and does vf still have the no p2p and no voip terms in the contract?
Interestingly, I’m seeing $80 for _3_ GB’s advertised on vf.co.nz. $90 for 6GB (+$10 for double your data). $10 cheaper if I sign up for 24 months, so basicly I pay off the extra amount over time.
The overage is 50c/meg, which is $500 PER GIG. Fixed line is usually around $1-2 per GB (eg xnet or telstra). Wow, that’d be easy to run up a huge bill with, especially at 7meg/s.
If I replaced my home line with this, I’d be paying around, um, $12000/month to vodafone. But I couldn’t anyway, ‘cos I use VOIP (from worldxchange), and I can’t use that over VF…..
“On TelstraClear cable, $80 will get you a 20 GB/month account plus an extra 3 GB or so at $3/GB.
What’s the *next* 6 GB cost you on Vodafone?”
Bruce, how far does the TelstraClear cable stretch? Is it available in Auckland or anywhere else outside Wellington.
The Vodafone 6GB is on mobile data, so access anywhere you can get 3G reception which is a lot of places these days.
You cannot compare a mobile 3G service for the amount of data to a fixed line price wise. You are not comparing apples with apples.
When the Vodafone iHug/Vector offer rolls out then maybe thats a better mix to compare.
I think you’re missing the point here Nic/Bruce. Rod described mobile broadband as “expensive” and an inhibiting factor. I’m saying that mobile data does not have to be as expensive as you all seem to think. In fact, we’re on a par with what some companies charge for FIXED line broadband.
As I’ve said before, mobile broadband shouldn’t be anywhere near the same price as fixed line broadband. Dollar for dollar fixed line is vastly cheaper to run than wireless (certainly mobile wireless) so to have access to a service that is in the same ballpark is really quite good.
Nic, you ask if Vodafone throttles for P2P or VOIP. The answer is no, we do not. There is no throttling, no restriction for how you use your traffic. You buy your traffic and use it as you wish.
I’ve asked in the past for readers to come up with mobile plans from around the world that offer as much data with as few restrictions and there are only a couple of instances world wide.
So I’ll say it again: Vodafone’s mobile broadband pricing doesn’t have to be an inhibiting factor in any software development in New Zealand.
Cheers
Paul
Mobile data is not much use without reliability, and VF have shockingly bad network reliability issues - continual dropouts where data is sent and not returned, requiring a disconnect and reconnect, grossly unreliable VMC software to manage the connection, continual cycling between GRPS, 3G and HSDPA. All in all, a very very poor customer experience. Come on VF, before you shout about your ‘cheap’ rates, get your network sorted!
To quote Paul:
Rod, I think you’ll find Vodafone’s data pricing is some of the cheapest around. Six gigabytes of data on our mobile network costs $79.95
—
So why does a person on prepay or standard plan who want to make casual use of data have to pay $10 + GST per MB for data - for $79.95 they’re only going to able to use just over 6MB of data.
Vodafone may be targeting their mobile broadband as a broadband replacement for many people but they’re completely forgetting about the casual users. It’s these users who could be making great use of data that Vodafone are completely ignoring. There is a growing market for non tethered data but that Vodafone seem completely oblivious to because they’re really only interested in trying to drive traffic to their Vodafone Live! walled garden. For every user that wants a 6GB plan for their data card there are probably 20 people who would love to call up Google Maps on their N95 but can’t afford to because it would cost them $5 just to find out where they are!
Where are the casual use data plans? Why can’t I pay say $50 to get 2GB of data that it valid for say 6 months on my Prepay or On Account plan that allows for casual use without incuring Vodafone’s insane $11.25/MB data charges?
Also, you’re being dishonest in that you can’t get a bare data plan with Vodafone, you have to have a voice plan as well. If you’re going to include Telecom line rental then you need to include the Vodafone voice plan as well.
—
Bare data plans are available from Vodafone and always have been. There is no requirement to have a voice connection and have a data overlay.
Steve, all I can say about casual rates is: watch this space. It is being taken seriously and it will be addressed.
And yes, you’re quite right about data plans. At Vodafone you can buy a data-only plan and always have. There’s no need to buy a voice line component as well.
You can even use a mobile phone(if it’s capable of course) as a modem so you don’t necessarily need to buy a new piece of hardware, but I try not to let that get out. If my wife finds out I DOON’T need a new toy… well, what’s the point really?
Cheers
Paul
Steve, casual rates of everything whether you are talking hotel rooms, airfares, train fares, renting houses rather than buying and phones are always more expensive.
If someone comes to me and says I want 100 or 1000 copies of your software they will get a much better price than the one off sale.
Its how the world works.
As Paul said, compare NZ to other countries. We will never be the cheapest, but we should be competitive and this area I think we are.
As for bad VF performance, as with all mobile it depends on reception and where you are.
Dermott: Indeed, casual rates are often more expensive than buying in bulk or advance. But $11.25/MB is *768* times more expensive than $90/6GB. I assume you wouldn’t sell 6000 copies of your software to someone for the same price as 9 (Broadband Pro), or even 400 copies for the same price as 5 (Broadband Starter). Even 15 for the price of 2 (Mobilise 15MB) seems a little far-fetched.
Either the marginal cost of providing someone with another megabyte is enormous, or the cellcos are making money hand over fist from those poor customers who accidentally use mobile data services without a plan. Given that they seem to be able to cope with charging a prepay user 50c for a short voice call, and a broadband plan user less than 2c for a megabyte of data, I suspect the latter.
@Paul: Please read your own website. I quote:
“The use of Mobilise Data plans for Voice over IP (VoIP) is excluded.”
(http://www.vodafone.co.nz/mobile-data/3g-broadband-plans.jsp)
It may not be throttled, but it’s not allowed, according to that.
As for the fixed line comparison, I think it comes down to the three “places” - home, work and the “third place” (ignore stupid sony ads now, please)
home: fixed line please. I want it to work all the time, but I never need to move it. Using a mobile network here is pointless for me - except from a vodafone/telecom revenue point of view. I want to be able to use a lot of data (20GB was about the minimum for me a month when I was in NZ), I want it always on, I want to use VOIP, P2P, streaming etc. And if I go over, I need to know it’s not going to cost more than my monthly salary.
work: ditto. But someone else is paying, and the traffic is different.
For me, mobile covers the 3rd place - everywhere else - a cafe, on the bus (maybe - I get car sick :( ), in a park etc. for this, I need a VERY small amount of monthly data, and I dont need or want super high speeds - faster than GPRS, sure, but not more than about 256K. And I want to be able to use a small amount of data without (again) transfering my salary to the ISP. 200meg would be about right for me in a month - tho to be honest, I use about 50-60 here in London, tops. But that for $40 (about £20)? Compared with £5 over here?* I’d consider $20NZ, tops, with no overage for that**. On prepaid. Cheaper on account.
I dont need 6GB for mobile data, as it’s not what I’d use 90% of the time. It’s just for quick “I’m bored, need to check my email” etc. Maybe I’m not a normal use-case. Rod isn’t either - he’s super mobile (or was), and needs both high speed and a fairly high datacap, but he’s making money off it, so the higher expense would be acceptable (and a business expense).
My point is not the business side - thats covered. It’s the consumer side, which is where the volume is for apps etc. As Steve pointed out, thats around $10/meg, which is prohibitive.
It’ll be interesting to see what happens if an NZ telco gets the iphone, ‘cos that thing uses a LOT of data (eg O2 over here is over capacity on EDGE because of it),and I doubt people will buy it if it’s going to have to come with a $120/month contract, with overage.
*three.co.uk - £5/month, 500meg, NO overage, on prepaid, no less.
** or maybe if I use the limit, I get an email or phone call, and I get cut off if I use 2x the limit. Take the fear away and more people will use it.
Hi Nic, so yes, I’ve re-read the T&C and I realise that one isn’t as clear as I’d like it.
Our position is that while at this stage do not restrict or charge differently for the use of VoIP over our network, it is not supported and service levels are not guaranteed.
Cheers
Paul
Dermett: The biggest flaw I can see in that logic if your logic was to be followed then voice calls would be (to quote Donald Gordon’s post) 768 times cheaper for somebody who used 1100 minuts per month than somebody who used 5 minutes per month but this isn’t the case. Somebody on PrePay can still pay 49c per minute for a call yet somebody On You Choose 1100 can pay 33c per minute for the same call.
Vodafone need casual data to grow but it’s not going to with the prices they charge.
We are currently writing several NZ based content web apps for the iphone and will be launching a free iPhone portal by the end of March.
Nothing there really at the moment but watch out for http://www.iphoneapps.co.nz in the coming months for some **simple** iphone apps I think kiwis will use. Notice the emphasis on simple. Nothing flash but content we will want to access on the run.
BTW don’t rule out Orcon as the iPhone contractor as they are rolling out their own services (via the vodafone network, but not a standard MVNO).
Hey Rod
Well I just got back from a week in Seattle, very motivating to see what the rest of the world is doing, especially the larger markets like North America.
Anyway, I came back with a shiny new 16GB iPhone, unlocked it in 3 minutes using Liberty+ and have been stunned and amazed everytime I use it. Quite simply the best mobile device I’ve ever used, and anyone who knows me knows that I tend to get a new phone every 3 months or so. Active Sync will be in Firmware 2.0 (already unlocked) but the IMAP support in 1.1.4 is great and works well, just means I have to doc the device to get contacts and calendars to sync.
So now I’m on the hunt for impressive and useful apps to put on my iPhone, any pointers? i’m also planning to write an iPhone based client for my Business Management tool (hosted service for managing clients and business operations).
I see Snow.co.nz has an app and the guys at Polar Bear Farm have got video working (though there are free versions out there anyway) so there is some great skill in NZ that is turning it’s attention towards this device, rock on!!
Cheers
Bruce