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Posted by rod@drury.net.nz in Communications at 11:02 am on Tuesday, 29 January 2008
Excellent post up on Vision Mobile
While you were out.. the mobile internet took off
A fundemental reason why things are taking off in Europe and the US is …
Unlimited and affordable data plan, and efficient bandwidth and coverage
Mobile data pricing is holding back the development of the mobile Internet in New Zealand and will make us uncompetitive. Other countries are moving ahead quickly and we are being left behind.
We used to want to lead the world in this stuff.
blog
If anyone can point me at a plan for mobile data in the UK or Europe or the US that is actually unlimited for data (and not unlimited* where *=200MB or similar)I’d love to hear about it. I’ve been looking but so far the only one I’ve found was in HK and one of the conditions was you didn’t use it for any kind of VOIP or P2P.
Seriously… Anyone at all?
Cheers
Paul
I pay $60 per month for unlimited mobile data in NZ on Vodafone. And by unlimited I mean 1GB traffic, which I have yet to fully use in a month - so it feels like unlimited. If I wanted to, I could pay an extra $20 to get 3GB monthly traffic which I’m fairly sure would cover a lot of VOIP traffic and streaming video in a month. But I’m still hoping that these prices come down in the months to come, especially as mobile devices are starting to be more and more functional.
Where Vodafone is dropping the ball though, is for light-users of mobile data. I think that $40 per month is too much for 200MB - I’d like to see a light plan that gives users 200MB for around $10-$15 per month. And don’t even get me started on the insulting 3MB traffic that comes with the Blackberry service - one session of using Google Maps wipes that out!
I’m running similar applications on my n95 here in NZ e.g. Agile Messenger, Yahoo Go and the built in Flickr uploader. I’m hesitant to use any of these when connected to the Vodafones network and only seem to use them when I’m using wifi. I have a data plan that I chew through pretty quickly and I’m not keen on paying the overage…
I did hear a rumor that we might be getting a better deal soon from Vodafone NZ on mobile data can anyone confirm ?
Guys (and girls) lots of things in NZ cost more than in much bigger markets or markets where 10 million people live in a space the size of Waiheke Island.
On Vodafone go for the Broadband Pro plan at $69.95 a month for 3GB, then pay another $10 for an extra 3GB, this is 6GB. I doubt people need more than this and if they do maybe they should be on a fixed line.
This $10 to double your data may apply to all their plans.
My concern in NZ with Internet access in general is not the cost but what is actually available.
I’d say that the 6 GB for $80 that Dermott mentions is pretty good if you want that much on your mobile. I don’t. If I could get that in units of a tenth of that for a tenth of the price (or smaller), pay as you go, then I’d turn EDGE on on my phone and do infinitely more Vodafone data than I do at present. Provided that I could get it with prepay voice, not a plan.
At the moment, I’m not using Vodafone data except in an emergency. I wait for wifi, or use my 2000 txts for $10 (which I’ve never used much more than a hundred of, but it’s still cheaper than 20c each…)
Hi,
I’ve written this article at VisionMobile.
To answer to Paul: I pay 50 euros per month for my Orange unlimited plan….they say it is limited to 500Mo but in reality they are not charging if you use more :-)
Thomas
Why is NZ’s data plan so expensive for a country that is so small? Even Singapore has better boradband and data plans.
Thank you for commenting Thomas. Great article.
@PAUL: My wife is using 3 over here in London (www.three.co.uk). She pays £5/month for, they say, 500meg of data/month (she’s on prepaid - it’s cheaper on contract). She used, at a guess, 5GB+ in a month when we didn’t have an internet connection at home. Nothing was said, no extra charges etc. It’s “fair use”. I have no idea how much she would have had to use to get a nasty phone call.
Oh, and that was at UMTS speeds, so she was getting around 400K in. Good enough for youtube :)
Yes, they do limit VOIP and P2P, but to be honest, thats not something I want to use my phone for. 3 also does Skype - FOR FREE - from their handsets. Skype to Skype is free, and I think Skype out is at normal skype rates.
For me on Vodafone UK, I pay 2£/meg, I think, but once I use over 500K, it’s flat until I hit 15meg (for £1) for the day, then £2/meg after that. Either way, it’s NOT $15/meg which is what I’d get OVER charged if I was in NZ. I stopped using data in NZ when I couldn’t justify work paying for it anymore (thanks Rod/AfterMail/Quest for paying for it for so long).
Personally, I dont want pure flat rate. I want something with a REALISTIC cap. 1GB/month for $5NZ is realistic on a phone. If I want to use it like Rod - ie, everywhere rather than using WIFI - charge me $30/month and put a 10GB cap on it. You are close on that with the mobile broadband plans, but there is nothing at the bottom end. And if I go over the cap? DONT charge me unless it’s WAY over - give me a call and tell me whats going on. Communication. Customer Service. :)
What do I wanna do on my mobile (if I was in NZ): Email. RSS/News reading. TradeMe. Maybe a few other trademe like apps (think stock trading, options trading, maybe look up a resteraunt and book it). Or all the apps on the iphone minus youtube and the browser. In the UK, I can do this for £1/day (£30/month), which is around $2NZ/day (if I use it) once it’s adjusted (exchange rate is not relative to what I earn). I’d pay that in NZ.
There are no/few mobile apps in NZ ‘cos people are too scared to go over budget. And because people are scared, noone writes apps ‘cos there isn’t a market. Catch-22. The telco (note singular: VF and TC might as well be oil companies for the difference in prices) needs to drop prices to stimulate the market, if thats in their interests…..
It’s the same as ADSL where 10GB is “normal”. Normal for WHO? Everyone _I_ know uses between 10 and 100GB/month. Over here I pay £20/month for that (fullspeed/fullspeed (4meg/500K), unlimited plan, WITH a good WIFI router included). In NZ I’d pay $130+ (TCL, 80GB plan), but with no router.
@ROD:
“Mobile data pricing is holding back the development of the mobile Internet in New Zealand and will make us uncompetitive. Other countries are moving ahead quickly and we are being left behind.”
How about a quick rewrite of this:
“Mobile data pricing HAS BEEN holding back the development of the mobile Internet in New Zealand for more than 5 years*, and HAS MADE us uncompetitive. Other countries are moving ahead quickly and we HAVE BEEN left behind.”
It’s been like this for ages. VF and TC take notice for a while, then go back to the stupid state of selling phonelines again. Rinse and repeat in another 36 months when the staff all change.
More here :)
http://www.fastchicken.co.nz/blog/2008/01/29/MobileDataInNZRearsItsUglyHeadAgain.aspx
Nic, I think what you are willing to pay is little unrealistic given the investment of hundreds of millions of dollars to setup the infrastructure. I don’t want mobile broadband for $5 for 1GB. To me the higher the price the less people on it and the better service those on it get. Sorry if this sounds a little Bourgeoisie but that is the way it is. I get fed up of people in NZ moaning at how expensive the Internet is NZ; the cost is not the major issue people! The major issues is the speed and the quality which you cannot get at any cost.
Also watching Youtube on your mobile phone is way down the list of priorities I think. It has the same importance as texting while driving - none.
More important would be services for sales reps updating orders and stock while out of the office. In this scenario maybe a better way to market the service would to approach Vodafone and Telecom and say, “I have 20 reps on the road, can we buy 10 or 20GB per month in one lump and share it between these reps”.
Hi all.hope this displays ok… Not tried it on the blackberry before. And no, not because of the “outrageous” price either… ;-)
Dollar for dollar the cost of providing bandwidth on a mobile network is far higher than providing it on a fixed line network. That really does impact on what we can charge for broadband and how much we can offer. I have to say I think 6GB of $80 with no throttling or caveats is a great offer. I do understand the frustration around casual data rates and all I can say is stay tuned. But the idea of 1GB for $5 isn’t likely to happen any time soon i’m afraid. Not on a mobile network at least.
Cheers
Paul
I work for a Wireless company in Norway. While Norway and NZ are almost at opposite ends of the OECD tables, there the some similarities. Norway has a similar population and a ‘can do’ attitude to innovation. Norway also a underdog on the world stage, despite being close to Europe. A point to note is that Norway was much later to 3G than NZ.
However the Telco environment in Norway is much different to NZ. It’s competitive, data rates are relatively low and the Telco’s have pursued open garden strategies. The result is the Norway has become a hotbed for wireless innovation. The Mobile World Congress starts on Deb 11. Along with my company, there will also be 20 other companies from Norway with their own stand at the event. To name drop:Opera, Trolltech (snapped up by Nokia our Finnish Neighbours), VIZRT, Fast (snapped up by Bill), Escenic, Telenor (bit of a poster child for Telco’s worldwide) will be there in force. There are of course lots of smaller ones.
NZ has two, Mobile Data Now and Opencloud. I wish them well.
Could the situation be different for NZ? Of course, we have the skills but not the environment.(I must fess up at this point - I have previously worked for a NZ Telco, before moving to Norway.- It still amazes me they cannot see where this all going.)
I hope it turns around. I want to come home one day!!!
Nick, interesting points you make. One of the major differences between NZ and other similar sized countries population wise is our physical separation from the rest of the world. This is something that European countries do not have these days but we still do. Our nearest neighbour is 1250 miles away, that is the distance between Oslo and Rome. European countries today share a lot of infrastructure. When the offshore windmills in Denmark stop generating power which they probably do 60-70% of the time Denmark gets its power via an undersea cable from a nuclear power station in Sweden.
Because of NZ’s isolation businesses here only look to the local market which is quite small. More need to change this view (something Rod has been trying to encourage for quite some time) and start to export. This is however expensive and quite time consumming but it has to be done.
@Dermott: I see your point about the $5/GB - I was talking about a capped $3 for 15meg/day, on prepaid, which is what I have here in the UK. That would actually do me for mobile data - I’m not a heavy user. Or $5/month for 100meg soft cap, with me getting charged (or disconnected) for going over 1GB. No need to publish the hard limit - so it can be changed as needed….
I agree - $5/GB is too cheap, however the investment in the infrastructure was made a LONG time ago… which gets me on to:
“One of the major differences between NZ and other similar sized countries population wise is our physical separation from the rest of the world. This is something that European countries do not have these days but we still do.”
Sorry, but my BS meter just went off :) NZ has the southern cross cable running at about 50% capacity, yet international bandwidth is “scarce”. It’s kept scarce by the owners of the cable, to keep the prices up. Again - some competition would be nice. It IS more expensive than europe, thats for sure, but not THAT expensive.
The major telco’s could get around it with some co-operation - shared cache’s, peering, that kinda thing. But they dont appear to be doing anything about it. WIX/AIX etc makes sense…. for anyone but the marketing/sales dept’s.
the problem is the fear people have of going over their cap, somewhat thanks to the media showing people getting $6000 bills when one of the kids fires up bittorrent or kazza. When they fear to use it, they dont use it - hence no apps, as there is no reason to invest in making them.
oops, that first para really should have been $10/month for 100mb etc. Math doesn’t make sense. :)
Nic, I think your BS meter needs retuning. My point about the physical separation of NZ has really nothing to do with the Southern Cross cable or the Internet. It was that distance even in the age of the Internet still leads to higher prices. Stuff that has to be shipped from Europe to NZ such as mobile cell equipment costs money to freight out here as opposed to sending it to Ireland (from Sweden or Finland).
It also costs more because we are poorer (nothing to do with the exchange rate, we just earn less compared with most OECD countries per head). This means that mobile upgrades which Vodafone are just going through to increase the speed cost lots of money and it has to be earned back from revenue from a fairly small population.
You say the investment in the infrastructure was made a long time ago, well not that long ago and it continually has to be upgraded.
Comparisons with the UK do not always show NZ as worse off.
$80 in NZ for 6GB (3GB + 3GB for an extra $10)
On Vodafone UK you cannot get 6GB only 3GB.
Compared to many other infrastructure providors the telcos probably don’t do too bad.
Power infrastructure in NZ is stuffed; did you see the other day that the Taranaki power station is closing for 60 days. The Cook Strait power cables are running at about 60% capacity. The wind doesn’t blow for wind turbines.
Don’t even start me on the state of roading.
NZ will never move up the OECD until governments start fixing and improving ALL the infrastructure.
@dermott:
>Nic, I think your BS meter needs retuning.
You are most likely right. Mobile data and mobile apps always gets me, as I used to work in that sector, and found it scary how little effort either telco put in to trying to get developers using the network. Think close to zero. Then there was the SMS “we’ll charge you 10c/message” followed later by “nope, sorry, new contract, it’s now 20c/message, and you have to pay to receive AND send”.
But I digress.
you have a point about shipping, however I dont know if I agree. The cost of shipping - even airfreight - something like cell gear from Europe would be a small % of the cost of the gear, installation and maintenance. But, it IS higher than over here in Europe.
> Comparisons with the UK do not always show NZ as worse off.
No, they dont, if you take into account the 3:1 exchange rate. But at 2:1 (which is closer to reality with the higher cost of living here) it’s not so good.
> Power infrastructure in NZ is stuffed;
Oh, yes. Has been for a long time, and nothing has been done. Nothing will be done until everything goes dark.
And as for dont get started :) : dont get me started on the lack of decent power generation in NZ. Nuclear is not the unsafe option it was in the 80’s, and coal - which, from memory, generates 40-60% of NZ’s power? - throws out more radiation - not to mention CO2 - than even a large nuclear station would.
but we can’t have one of them, ‘cos like cabletv in Auckland, it’d be ugly and the greens wouldn’t like it.
Check out the cool diagram of global undersea cables at O’Reilly Radar: http://radar.oreilly.com/archives/2008/02/failure_happens_3.html
Nic, I would be very happy to have a nuclear power station on the Kaipara harbour.
Google takes credit for mobile web surge: “The growing availability of flat-rate data plans from phone carriers instead of per-minute charges that previously discouraged internet use, along with improved web browsers on mobile phones as well as better-designed services from companies like Google are fueling the growth, Waddell argued.”
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=5&objectid=10499279
[...] lot of this stemmed out of one of Rod’s posts about flat rate mobile data and National’s fibre plans, and some interaction with Paul Brislen from Vodafone NZ (ex of [...]