I retired from personal blogging in July 2008 but you can find me over at blog.xero.com
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Posted by rod@drury.net.nz in Communications at 9:29 am on Wednesday, 17 October 2007
Vodafone just sent me a text to dial 495 to find out about new roaming charges.
Hmm, no web page updates, just a voice message. That was interesting.
In the message it said roaming txt (that is the no cost to the carrier channel) are going up from 20c to 80c.
Receiving a call is $1 per minute. Making a call in Oz at peak is $1.45 per minute.
There is a new opt in Traveller plan with 4 zones.
- Australia = NZ Standard Rate. Cool!
- UK = NZSR + $2 per minute
- North America and Asia = NZSR +$3 per minute
- ROW = NZSR + $5 per minute
I don’t get why the Telco’s treat customers like this. This pricing is ridiculous and just drives people more to Skype which is getting better and better.
Watch this one blow up in the next few days. Paul you’re in for a busy few days.
blog
I don’t get why large companies can’t compete honestly and continually resort to monopolistic practices such as these. I made a handful of calls from my work Vodafone phone while in the US, and the bill was for over NZD$120! Outrageous.
The inexplicable thing is that it appears to be quite hard to get pre-paid SIM cards in the US. I would’ve thought that they’d be selling them at every convenience store in LAX by the tens of thousands.
Having said all the above, the capitalist in me says “make hay while the sun shines”, and if Vodafone is doing this, it’s because it can get away with it. Once the market changes *enough*, they will follow suit.
It’s still extremely frustrating as a consumer though.
Off to the UK in a couple of days. I asked Vodafone if they could do anything about the $10 / kbyte data roaming charges. Something like give/rent me a local sim.
The answer was “no”.
Duopoly customer service stinks.
Man that bites. Looks like I’ll be looking at pay-as-you-go sim on my next trip to the states. With Skype-in/Skype-out i could redirect to my temporary phone - but of course, that would rely on giving out my Skype number to start with. Such a pain. Might have to print a Skype (or otherwise ‘redirectable’) number on my next business card.
OK, so NZ + $5 beats $11 hands down.
Yes, thats how much a _minute_ will cost you in Russia if roaming from NZ. My boss’es bill (Duncan) was around $5K for _2_ weeks. Of course, like 99% of corporates, the company didn’t care, which is I think why VF can hike the charges up.
SIM’s in the US are trivial to get. Took me 5 mins and my drivers license (or passport) to get one in Madison, and less time in OZ. Just go local!!!
Oh, and BTW: atleast this set of changes is simple. the old one was crazy - $X on this network, $Y on this one….. argh!!!
Needs to be cheaper tho. Personally, I have a VFX VOIP box (www.wxc.co.nz), so I have an 04 number where ever I am with an ethernet connection - $10/month, +$99 for the hardware. Fantastic.
Hi everyone,
I’d be interested in doing a story on this tomorrow for the online publication The Line.
I’d be keen to talk to some of you to see what these new roaming charges are all about before I go to Vodafone.
My number is 04 801 0601.
Cheers
That’s just too funny Rod. Yesterday I was talking to a recruitment consultant just in from the UK and her biggest gripe after a month here - the cost of cell phone communication!
I’d agree with you on the skype front (or gizmo) but for the fact that mobile data is even more expensive than voice when roaming AND finding public wireless hotspots that work or are anything but extortionate can be a real pain. We spent a couple of weeks in Brisbane earlier in the year and it was almost impossible to get connected.
Bring on WIMAX and community based wi-fi access.
For anyone interested there was a wicked podcast from the BBC (Digital Planet) about a month ago where a new mobile company in Finland I believe has modified standard handsets to enable them to i) act in a community mesh so that only one phone needs to maintain a base station connection, ii) affords everyone in the community free local cell to cell calls and iii) is really scaring the European telco’s. If I can find the link I’ll slam it up.
JohnR - just go to any Wal*Mart and pock up a 450 pre-pay phone. You _can_ get sim cards from your local dodgy phone dealer (the ones that are not branded), but just getting an extra phone is oh so much easier.
Meanwhile - Australia = NZ - where do I sign up?
JohnR - just go to any Wal*Mart and pock up a $50 pre-pay phone. You _can_ get sim cards from your local dodgy phone dealer (the ones that are not branded), but just getting an extra phone is oh so much easier.
Meanwhile - Australia = NZ - where do I sign up?
The carriers are not all that bad. How about this little home broadband offer.
http://www.virginbroadband.com.au/?campaign=paidsearch
Yes, these charges are just unworkable, I disabled my blackberry email 2 days after arriving here in the US 6 weeks ago after realising it would be $25 a day just to have it checking email, let alone downloading, as for the calls, at $4 bucks + a minute you feel like you must have a private operator connecting accross your own copper.
I grabbed a local SIM, and made my last call to vodafone over skype change voice mail and tell people my new number,
Yes they can get away with it with some people, but this is crap customer stuff, if they were serious about helping NZ businesses succeed globally, they’d drop this kind of short term behavior.
Tim Norton - your BlackBerry shouldn’t cost $25per day in US.
Even if you were away for a whole month and were a heavy user so chewed through 5MB in the month @ $30.00 per MB would cost you $150 / 30 = $5.00 per day.
Were you using maps Tim?
Yeah, the last two trips I was in the USA, I took my NZ phone roaming to take calls in case they happened, as its unprofessional for someone to contact me and go through hurdles to find me.
But I used a local prepay SIM card on a different phone so that I could use the local rates (which were so cheap I didn’t take notice of the costs… around 10c/minute or 10c a text, by my guess).
So much for “roaming”. (Anyone going to make me a phone capable of two SIM cards? :P)
The biggest con with Vodafone’s new rates is that they don’t differentiate between national and international traffic. Roaming to Singapore on holiday? A national call to a mobile or landline in Singapore will currently cost you between 45c and 50c per minute. A call back to NZ will cost between $1.55 and $2.00 per minute. Sign up on Traveller and you’ll know pay your standard rate + $3.00 per minute. You can pay around 50c per minute to make a national call in the UK, now you’ll pay $2.00 per minute + your standard rate. Vodafone seem to have completely forgotten that people don’t use use their mobile while roaming to make and receive calls to or from NZ.
Why should all other European networks be able to sign up for Passport and pay a flat rate for incoming calls, even if they’re roaming to NZ? Why can’t NZ have Passport? Why don’t Vodafone offer different pricing for national calls and international calls while roaming? Vodafone Oz’s roaming model is very nice.
Infact how about going one step further - why can’t Vodafone do that the 3 network have been doing since the start of the year? Roam on another 3 network and you can use your included txt’s, minutes (to call nationally), pay no incoming roaming surcharge and best of all pay very reasonable rates for data roaming, 3 Australia charge 50c /MB while roaming on another 3 network. Vodafone have never been able to acchieve any of the economies of scale and introduce the simplicity that should be associated with being one of the biggest mobile carriers in the world and that’s a shame really. Traveller is Vodafone’s biggest joke yet.
This change is incredible. I’m even more worried when my bill comes in for the iPhone use of data when I traveled in the USA in September. The iPhone is a data hungry little sucker too!
Yeah, the thing that aggrevates me is the bill that says “$XXXXX” for roaming charges, and oh, how come you didn’t use your peak and offpeak “free” national minutes during your month? Well, maybe the 100+ or whatever “free” minutes I pay for on my contract should be used up when I’m calling from outside my country rather that going to waste. Talk about brand destruction.
Hi Sigurd,
I had a replacement back piece for a Nokia 7210 years ago and the phone could handle 2 sim cards at once, the primary card (the local one) got billed for the calls I made and my NZ one was only set to receive. Worked really well. I bought the attachment for about NZ$20 in Labuan, Malaysia. The retailer gave me the codes for activating the phone - cannot remember them now.
To save on costs - get a local sim card 10pounds in london, Singapore $18, Vietnam really cheap, Thailand really cheap and the interent costs there about NZ$1 per hour approx using the laptop thru the cellphone.
Hi Rod, everyone… been away at a conference on blogging (oh the irony!)..
Right. Traveller. It’s all about simplicity. Instead of having to select networks when you get off the plane and compare price tarrifs across the board and figuring out which one should sign up to, it’s a standard price for all REGARDLESS of which network you connect to when you land.
So, using Vodafone Traveller in Australia customers will now pay the same standard rate as when they use their mobile in New Zealand – on any network. Previously, this deal only applied for people using Vodafone Australia’s network.
We’ve averaged out the costs across the group so yes, some countries have become more expensive with regard to some products (TXTs for example in Australia) but overall customers who roam internationally to numerous countries will find it cheaper and easier to understand.
It’s a compromise between keeping costs down and simplifying the structure so it’s easier to understand. Telcos come in for some criticism for making things complex (cough confusion as a marketing tool cough) and we’re trying to avoid that with Traveller.
However, if after all that you’re still not convinced and you want to roam using the existing structure, you can. Traveller is opt in, so if you don’t want to you don’t have to. Stay on the existing roaming rates if you prefer – it’s your choice.
Cheers,
Paul Brislen
Vodafone External Communications Manager
I have a Telecom mobile broadband card in my notebook for checking emails when I am on the road. It has a 200 Meg limit for $30/month and I never go over. Was in Aussie for 7 days expecting to use the hotel connection, but tried my Telecom card and it worked! Hallelujah (NOT)! Just got the bill for $517 for checking emails twice a day. Skype here I come.
Ok time for my two pence worth. Forgetting about which device you use for mobile data at 3G speeds on Vodafone NZ and UK these are the prices.
Broadband Pro 3GB limit on a 24 month plan $69.95 minus the GST is $62.18. Its $10 more when not on a plan.
Same service in UK is GBP25 which at todays rates is $NZ68.15
So looking at these prices its very similar.
Now someone is going to say these prices don’t follow the McDonalds price comparison tests between the UK and NZ, and they do not. And probably the reason they do not, is that the hardware infrastructure which runs Vodafones cell phone network all comes from Europe (Ericsson, Nokia or Alcatel etc) and the equipment has to be paid for in Euros and all we have are NZ clam shells.
We are too poor as a nation to have all the toys that some of you guys want. If we can lift the standard of living in NZ then some of this stuff makes sense.
Of course the other reason could be that Vodafone and Telecom are ripping us off but looking at the figures above I cannot see this.
Maybe someone who is more creative with numbers can come to a different conclusion.
I would also say it is very easy to be blinded to how much data traffic you generate on data and BB type connections and at $30 or so per 1MB it is very easy to run up $100 a day bills, often for reading non important emails. The answer is to filter email sent to you when overseas.
I’ve four comments to make.
1. If it’s true that as Paul Brislen says that simplicity helps the customer, why are these rates more expensive? Seem to me that simplicity should lead to greater efficiencies and therefore improved savings for customers.
2. We know that Vodafone is really the only global Telco available to Nzers, even CDMA is being closed down, and then not again in Oz, so Telecom isn’t an option. Telstra’s getting in to bed with Telecom isn’t helping the Oz situation. With wireless and Skype, perhaps I don’t need a mobile after all.
3. To say that it’s an opt in situation is of course is not something that one can argue with, however there is an attitude here that is arrogant and uncaring of Vodafone’s revenue stream … woops, it’s customers. A cynical comment that matches the cynicism with which it is treating its clients.
4. Just as global warming doesn’t seem to have made the climate warmer, if this simplification is the answer, I’m in favour of bringing back the confused pricing rgime that Telcos are accused of.
Hi John,
in order:
1: The rates are not all more expensive. SOME rates are, yes, but what we’ve done is averaged across the range of rates to hit a middle ground. Several of our major destinations (The US and India for example, off the top of my head) are now far cheaper than they were before.
2: Not sure there’s actually a question in there.
3: The whole Traveller project has been driven by customer demand and led by customer feedback. Customers have been telling us (and other telcos as well I would imagine) that the plans are too complex, too difficult to use when travelling. The vast majority of our customers make the vast majority of their calls between their destination and home in New Zealand so we’ve used that as the starting point and developed what is, I think, a much better offer than we had in the market before.
HOWEVER
If you don’t like the new offer (and I can imagine the case of a business traveller going to one single destination repeatedly, for example) then by all means stick with the status quo. That’s why it’s opt in - the customer can decide for his or her self.
I’m really not sure what else you’d have us do… if you have any suggestions as to how we can improve the service then by all means email them through - my address is on the Vodafone website or you can figure it out quite easily (I won’t post it out here - I get enough spam as it is).
Cheers
Paul
Paul Brislen
Vodafone External Communications Manager
That’s him self of course, not his self… can’t figure out how to edit a post. Sorry about that. Heh.
Cheers
Paul
This is the first time I have seen corporate comms on a NZ blog - well done Paul.
Paul
How about you start a VodafoneNZ blog - and encourage local Telco commentators to take part as well. keen to discuss further - drop me a line sometime.
b
Hi Ben, Sam… funny you should say that… the conference I was attending when this all started was on just that. Social media, blogs, wikis and what a corporate should and shouldn’t do… Now to write up a strategy!
Cheers
Paul
Paul - I have some ideas - drop me a line benkepesAtgmailDOTcom
Paul, if you want a free blogsite contact me at Starsoft.
Thanks Dermott, that’s great of you. Once I’ve got my ideas sorted I’ll let you know.
Cheers
Paul
Paul,
I’d love to see some graphs or calculators that aid the discussion. Or even a “bill loader” where I could, for instance, load in my last month’s bill and see how much I would have saved.
But perhaps we should save you the trouble, for I don’t assume it would come anywhere close to the affordability of using a foriegn sim.
Like, my prepay AT&T phone was around US 10c a text, and really compelling, around 10c a minute to call. Even if I buy a phone under $100, I’ve saved money overall, within days.
I looked on the vodafone site to no avail for more info on this Traveller deal, but could only find cop-outs that basically said ‘to save money, stop using your phone’. My favourite was to not answer your phone, let it go to voicemail, and only ring back your important people. Yeah, I can see me wanting to treat friends and business contacts like that…. they’d feel super important then.
This is in no way a personal grudge on you. But I have to agree with Ernie at TUANZ that Vodafone started as the sexy new girl on the block, full of promise and flair, gathered loyalty, but is now working actively to lose it.
( See https://www.tuanz.org.nz/blog/e379f711-b2b6-4423-9e32-4a8bf9f301db/11f6373a-4312-4074-bd63-4a7ab26c18c6.html )
Hi Sigurd,
I’ve sent Ernie and Sarah at TUANZ a compare/contrast chart of five destinations so you can see what the pricing is like in comparison with the old pricing. Once they’ve posted it I’ll put the link in here so you can all have a look.
It’s a fine balancing act getting price points that are the most cost effective while at the same time making the pricing plan as easy to use as possible, particularly when we’re constrained by other companies and what they want to charge.
The research we’ve done says emphatically that customers who travel want simplicity, so that’s what we strive to deliver.
Obviously we’re not going to be able to offer a product that pleases all the customers in every way every time. For a roamer such as yourself (I’m guessing you go to one or two destinations repeatedly and make numerous local calls) I presume having a SIM you can swap in when you arrive would be cheaper than taking a roaming service from ANY mobile company. But most of our customers don’t act in that manner. By far the majority of calls made by Vodafone NZ customers as they roam overseas are calls back home to New Zealand.
Hope that helps,
Cheers
Paul
Vodafone External Communications Manager
I believe Vodafone Australia’s Roaming is far superior.
http://www.vodafone.com.au/Personal/CoverageRoaming/InternationalRoamingwithVodafoneWorld/VodafoneWorldforPostpay/index.htm
The costs are the same no matter what network, TXT prices are fixed however the cost to receive calls does vary and costs back to Australia are slighly more expensive in some regions compared to what NZ offers. Regions such as North America and Asia/Pacific are substancialy cheaper than NZ’s new offering and national calls are also billed accordingly. Overall the sigle plan for roaming with the best of both worlds is IMHO far superior than what Vodafone NZ can offer - Traveller with some prices cheaper or the existing plans with wildly varying rates that are quite often nothing like those listed on their website.
Why can Australia get something right and not NZ? Why can Australia negotiate cheaper rates for regions such as North America than Vodafone NZ?
@ TimmyH … You say a HEAVY BackBerry user go through 5MB a month? It’s a joke… My inbox receives about 100 MB a day of e-mail - not counting the spam.
Reality check time for some people…
This comment is not about roaming but about using mobile broadband in NZ.
I just bought a new notebook - HP 2510P, light as a feather, runs Vista and comes with a sim slot built in and the aerial somewhere in the screen. Works very well. The Vodafone control panel is different to the last one I downloaded from Voda NZ’s website but seems better and shows more accurately your traffic use.
So at home because I have not had time to hook it up to my Xtra connection via Wi-Fi, I have been connecting to the Internet via Vodafone. Much faster on 3 bars reception which is about what I get at home.
And di you know that while the maximum plan on mobile broadband was 1GB, it is now $10 more for 3GB (don’t know when that changed) and the 3GB plan has bundle insurance so when you hit the 3GB limit you get another 3GB for $10. Now thats value. Portable access and heaps of data unless you are playing games or the like which I don’t do.
So why would you want to connect from some low speed Starbucks connection when you can get 3.6 mbps for a few bucks?
Hi Steve B,
The whole point is that Vodafone NZ customers a: call home far more than anywhere else and b: asked for a fixed/simple tariff for incoming calls. Vodafone Australia has taken a different route - they have a different customer base.
We asked our customers whether they wanted multiple tariffs for multiple call types to different destinations and they said categorically no, less is more. Vodafone Australia’s plan offers preferential rates for using preferred network operators, a different rate for calling home versus calling another country and so on.
Different customers require different offers so the Vodafone NZ offer fits well with what Vodafone NZ customers have said they want.
However, as I’ve said here and elsewhere, if you want to stick to the old system, choosing your own preferred network operator and so on, you can. Traveller is Opt In and that means you can make the choice for yourself.
Hope that helps,
Cheers
Paul Brislen
Vodafone External Communications Manager
Here is the US it is dirt cheap (& easy) to get a pre-pay … AND if you buy a $25(USD) one they give you a phone (AT&T, T-Mobile).
Yes … GIVE you a phone (you can pick from 2 i think).
Sure, it isnt a Smartphone, Blackberry or iPhone… but you can make calls. Great if you still want to take calls on your NZ cell.
If you want to call home buy a calling card from http://www.callingcards.com. You get a 1800 number (free to call) & it costs you 4c a min to call NZ. Better than Skype because you can call from any payphone, landline, cell etc…
-CJ.
It looks like, finally, that some common sense is beginning to filter into the mobile operators in Europe at least.
According to SMSTextNews (http://tinyurl.com/3drc5f) “From June 2008, Vodafone’s top whack mobile roaming bundle will go from €75 to €60. And they’ll increase the international roaming allowance from 100mb/month to 150mb/month. Which, if you do a little bit of spin, gets you a 45% reduction in the price per megabyte.”
Now this is with VF Europe and it only applies to Vodem/Data Card users NOT handsets (quite what the difference is I don’t understand), but if VF NZ ever gets over its duopoly maybe we too can have some decent roaming data plans.