I retired from personal blogging in July 2008.
But you can find me over at http://blog.xero.com.
Posted by rod@drury.net.nz in Communications at 6:58 am on Sunday, 30 September 2007
On the Vodafone help site
http://www.vodafone.co.nz/business/help/daylight-saving-changes.jsp
BlackBerry models running software version 4.2.2.129 or later already support the new DST rules and will be fine as they are.
The BlackBerry 8310 is also already compliant with the new DST rules.
I have a brand new Curve 8310 running v4.2.2.151. The time is out by an hour. If I make changes all my appointments might be out.
Very, very sloppy Vodafone.
blog
I’m generally annoyed by vodaphone and time - when I land in the US and turn on my phone the first thing I get is the new date/time, not so when I get back to NZ - which I assume is because Vodaphone aren’t broadcasting the time on their cell towers in some well known standard GSM format
To add insult to injury the new ‘radically improved’ Auckland domestic terminal has apparently been improved by removing all the clocks ….. (a real ‘radical improvement’ would been to have moved it next to the international terminal or at the very least removing the cold damp hole of a corridor aka “gate 29″)
Interesting. My BB8700 did not upgrade. I just use the Internet option not the Enterprise option. If you click on the Time in settings it has an option to update time which then connects to the BB service and does nothing.
The diagram on Vodafones site is more complex than the Windows instructions.
A push service like this should update automatically.
This morning I posted about this (http://www.geekzone.co.nz/freitasm/3856) - congratulations to Microsoft, Telecom New Zealand, booh for Apple…
There’s also an explanation on why a DST update is important for corporate users. A lot of people missed the point. Telcos including…
Rod, speaking about Daylight Saving issues how about updating the time on your Blog.
…and once again Vodafone forget about their NZ Treo users - but then again, so did Palm…
Well done Dermott. So Wordpress is wrong as well (I have set my timezone in the past). Hopefully my Wordpress site being out doesn’t have the same enterprise implications.
The iPod Touch didn’t change over either.
Yeah,
Apple hasn’t released an update for the new NZDT start date. So all my ipods, laptops and my iPhone are out by an hour. I’m guessing the server that you’re hosted on is also running an old version of the timezone info databases.
We’re basically suffering the same fate that our american friends did 6 months ago when congress changed their laws, but because we’re a much smaller market most vendors seem to have missed us out completely.
Very frustrating…
The main problem is that the government only gave 5 month notice of the change. This was not really enough time of International vendors to notice, produce a patch, make it available and then for local organisations to apply it.
I have read that Internationally there are around 30 DST changes per year so vendors can’t put out special patches for each but bundle them into the normal maintenance releases.
For example many Java implimentaions keep their own timezone settings (rather than using the one on the machine they run) so everything running java had to have be patched (both the OS and *each* Java copy on the machine).
I think that if the goverment had only made the change apply from the end of the current period (March 2008) then things would have been a little better. Certainly where I work they has been a lot of worth of the last few months with patching for the change.
Even better I hear rumors that another change will happen for the Rugby World cup in 2011. Hopefulyl we will get a bit more notice.
Just noticed that the MacBook I patched with the local fix mentioned here …
http://www.drury.net.nz/2007/09/19/daily-savings-time-on-osx/
… hasn’t updated either.
Hmmmm. What happens if I change the time? Then all my international appointments are out right?
Simon, thats just utter rubbish. Five months was ample time. Applications that do not use the machine time are badly written. We wrote a custom app last year, hosted in Sydney with users from Perth to NZ. The app knows where the users are from their logon and the time stamps are then based on GMT and a relativity to the time zone where the users are. Works fine, we dont change anything only MS does. Easy.
Rod, did you get the 1.1 version? (it turned out there were two databases used by different parts of the system) Did you reboot?
Ah yes, just checked that. Thanks Bruce. The 1.1 version worked.
Just updated the iPod Touch to 1.1 as well. It didn’t sync the time. So that is still wrong.
Yes, annoying. I’d hoped that the Mac’s tz files might be synched to it automatically, but no such luck I tried changing the time manually on my Touch, but then I next plugged it into the Mac it reverted. (Didn’t even need an iTunes sync — I have auto-sync turned off — just plugging it in was enough)
If there was a jailbreak then we could fix it ourselves just like the Macs grrrrrr.
Dermott, I agree that applications should use the machine’s timezone data. However it appears the Java people decided to ship there own version of it in the JDK/JRE and SDK. Thus any application that uses the built-in java stuff will be broken unless they are also updated.
http://www-1.ibm.com/support/docview.wss?rs=3068&uid=swg21250511
http://java.sun.com/javase/timezones/
Which means that if you have to patch every copy of Java on your machine as well as updating the main system timezone database. I would agree that Java appears to be badly written in this respect.
I’m not a java programmer but I would assume that most java apps will use the built in Java timezone functions rather than using the operating system.
As for 5 months, I guess you don’t have to patch and reboot hundreds of machines and patch and restart hundreds of java installs (some which came with vendor software and are out of date). Or things like NAS servers and firewalls with important production services hang off them.
Dermott: You can’t generalise like this. Many systems are compelled to use their own TZ code when, for example, they need to serve more than one TZ simultaneously and alter behaviour based on it — such as a banking, accounting, telco, or other system that cares about hours, day, months or years. SaaS systems hit this when they serve companies domiciled in different timezones; the TZ is related to the company data not the server or even the user(s) timezones. Australia has been dealing with this crap for years.
5 months is not sufficient time for a reasonable size company A to add a change like this to their patch cycle, release it, and for the final recipient company B to take it, test and release it. For example if a company A has a 3 month patch cycle, then the release of the patch only gives company B a few months to get it into production use. The sheer momentum of large company release cycles doesn’t allow for this nimbleness (SaaS would fix this). All this is assuming that the company A noticed the TZ change in the first place…
The US Govt did this right; they told everyone and they told them with years of advance warning. Hugo Chavez is doing it wrong, hell he can’t even decide which direction the 1/2 hour delta he wants to apply to Venezuela is.
We land somewhere in the middle (tending towards banana republic), but I disagree that 5 months is sufficient. Complaints should be directed at the Govt, not Apple IMO.
I applaud your use of UTC by the way.
Rod, re your comments on Vodafone, got a letter at work this morning from them telling me how to update my BB, after the event. Sounds like the $400-500 million on their new customer software might have been misplaced.
The funny thing was the letter basically says, your appointment times will be out, bad luck.
Even now it would be great to get some guidance. If I was Vodafone customer support I’d have a web page out that basically says.
1. Sorry Enterprise customers
2. Here is impact of the problem (And I mean take 10 minutes to think through the scenarios where times might be out, like international appointments)
3. Here is what we suggest you should do
What I would like them to tell me is: Should I change my BB manually? Does that put my computer and BB out of sync? What does that mean for international appointments? If you set international appointments at the local time are you OK? And will I have to change them all again when the loaded NZ TZ data kicks in.
I have a bunch of international con calls and meetings set up. I’m too scared to change anything in case the times get screwed.
I downloaded the Windows Mobile update to my JasJam and it fixed… nothing! All my appointments this week are out, while those of next week are fine.
This stuff isn’t rocket science.. why can’t the worlds largest companies (Vodafone, Microsoft etc al) seem to get it right. Grrrrr.
Hi Rod,
This probably won’t help you, but I get the impression that Blackberry time is run from the Blackberry server you get your mail from:
http://www.blackberry.com/btsc/search.do?cmd=displayKC&docType=kc&externalId=KB14170&sliceId=SAL_Public&dialogID=47758087&stateId=0%200%
Therefore if you’re getting push email from Vodafone, they need to do some work.
@krazykiwi… Have you followed ALL the instructions, including the step that says to change the timezone to something else and change back?
IF you didn’t then don’t blame the software… I have four Windows Mobile devices here and they all worked fine.
hi m! yes - followed the instructions… which is rare for me. but did this on sunday so perhaps fix doesn’t work after the fact. dunno.
I am becoming more and more unimpressed with Vodafone. Got letter this morning as I am sure many of you did saying due to the rollout of the trans-Tasman operating system their behind-the-scenes systems will be off air for 5 days. I think this is very poor implemetation of a new system.
Also just noticed that although I’ve changed the date on my brand new Vodafone supplied Curve (which I shouldn’t have to do according to their instructions), emails and SMS’s are received an hour in the future.
Grrrrrrr!
At the risk of a me too post [AOL], same voda problem with my BB Pearl using internet service. No help yet despite a number of calls and email exchanges with voda today. In addition, it seems to have screwed up my desktop management synch which now won’t work at all (and if I try it, just changes the time back to pre-DST time). The suggestion from voda to avoid confusion re different times in desktop vs BB - insert the time of the appointment in the subject line for all appointments!! Thanx for that - maybe I should just go back to writing them on the back of my hand.
My Sympathies to all!
Firstly my two cents, the nz government had no idea what they would put IT People through. That goes for the poor buggers at all telecos, internal IT staff and outsource partners.
Second I would like to kick Benjamin Franklin up the bum for creating daylight savings in the frist place. Unfortunatley I think he has changed address or present existence. I was pretty sure it started getting lighter in summer anyway…
On the techy side I have patched the daylights out of my exchange 2003 server and also have a farily current version of BES running. I have a new curve that works fine a few 8707’s and the only thing that gets the time wrong is a black pearl $%^#$%.
The vodphone help pdf certainly goes into detail but takes a little while to get to the point. I think whoever made the help guide was upset with the government, I quote ‘From 1900 to 2006 the time started at blah, blah…’
Anyway im off to run a rushed out SQL script on the BES server from RIM that I found using vodafones help guide. Lets see if it fix’s the peral but breaks the others…
Best of luck and happy hunting!
Update,
Looks like it may have been an ongoing reoccuring appointment that was threw things off by an hour. I killed the reoccuring appointment for the user and then anything in the new week was then perfect on the 8100 and same hour. Anything in this week would be an hour out. Fun.
OK found the Blackberry answer, I think. Changing the time obviously does not do anything which is probably because most software like this works off the timezone not the time. And from the timezone it thinks NZ is GMT+12 when in fact it is GMT+13. So the answer I saw on a Blackberry forum is to change your timezone to Nuku’alofa” i.e. GMT+13. The upside of doing this is
1. you only have to do it for a week and
2. you don’t really have to move to Tonga (unless you want to)
May have to make similar changes on the BES if using this option.
Guy who suggested this was from RBNZ
Thanks Dermott. Didn’t work for all appointments. Ones that I had set today in NZ time (the default) are all out for an hour. So I’ll change back to NZ. Wonder what is going to happen this weekend.
What a mess.
Rod, suggest you take a summer sabatical in Oz. Much better weather, no earthquakes, volcanos………………
@dermott… Changing your timezone to other country works to show the correct time for appointments you have in your calendar this week.
But future appointments you create during this weeked will be created with an incorrect timezone and when the DST ends they will be shifted by one hour.
It’s wrong to change the timezone - it only fix the clocks and display but not the stored information.
It’s fairly frustrating and it should have been simple. Sadly following the intructions has not worked for my colleagues and myself. I use the i-mate SPJAS that has the Windows Mobile 5.0 os. It seems more and more often they stuff these things up. Tonga time zone for me.
Funny, my 2-year-old iPod updated automatically - though I’m not sure if that had to do with my hooking it up to my laptop which had updated(?)
Hi all,
Both RIM and Vodafone thoroughly tested the patch for daylight saving changes and worked hard to make sure the right customers were given the correct information.
However a handful of devices appear to have issues accepting the update, so we’re working with individual BlackBerry owners to determine what software they’re running to see what caused the conflict. We apologise for any inconvenience.
And can I just say I’m one of them - my Pearl is supposed to be upgraded and this morning (when I synched with my laptop) for some reason decided the time should be an hour earlier… not much fun when you miss a meeting with the boss. I can only sympathise and direct you to call customer service.
Cheers
Paul Brislen
Vodafone External Communications Manager
Hi Paul, thanks for joining the conversation.
Hi there
I upgraded the software for my blackberry 8100 and found that I had no problems with the time. I went into our local store and the tech basically pointed me in the right direction. He also told be the time will change anyway on Sunday, but helped me change the software on my BB and laptop for day light savings. I also recieved a pamphlet in the mail explaining how to complete the BB upgrade. Overall I realy did not have a problem. Maybe you should blame the Government for changing daylight savings???? just a question to ponder. Regards John Wilson
Even Google have daylight saving for NZ wrong in their calendar app. For instance you cannot schedule the 2am Sunday morning Aus/Eng rugby game, it gets shifted to 3am automatically ! (its quite neat to see it getting shifted though)
I had to smile at their response to the bug report.
Hi Andrew,
Thank you for taking the time to report this problem. We’re aware of this
issue and our engineering team is working to find a solution.
We apologize for any inconvenience and hope to resolve this in the near
future.
Regards,
The Google Team
Time fixes everything !
Andrew - well at least thats better than the response I just got from the Voda escalation team - “sorry because you’re using BB internet service rather than th enterprise connection there is no fix and you’ll just have to wait until Monday when, hopefully, everything will self right.”
I disagree with Simon’s comment above. Java SE has to contain it’s own version of the timezone tables. Some Java API’s need more than just the raw Olson timezone data. See http://bugs.sun.com/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=6468394 for more info.