Firefox3: Web Apps Game changer
Posted by Rod in Microsoft, SaaS, TechBiz at 9:47 am on Saturday, 3 February 2007

A session with huuuuge implications first up today from Robert O’Callahan from Mozilla. He’s based in NZ but drives the rendering engine of Mozilla/FireFox. (Aside1: I think that it is completely cool that such a web significant thing is being built from a guys sun room in New Zealand - rocking!)

Firefox3 is going to deliver support for offline applications.

Why is this important? Because when you go offline you will still be able to interact with your applications. So in a webmail scenario, read your mail, write drafts. Web Calendars would work.

More importantly imagine the opportunity for Line of Business Applications. The Browser really does become the Operating System - with persistent storage.

This will allows richer SaaS applications and goes some what towards eliminating the offline scenario issue of web based applications. This makes Web apps even more compelling.

There are of course a bunch of issues, like leaving state on a machine so like all technologies its designing an implementation that works for your application requirements.

The good thing about his being led by Mozilla is that they will push their work out as standards. So the big question becomes what will Microsoft do?

Given the time cycle of Explorer releases MS will be playing catch up (and hopefully use the standards - a wildly optimistic scenario) or they will promote their own standard. What I think is interesting is that offline apps is so compelling for SaaS providers that it is likely SaaS providers will push Firefox as a preferred/mandatory platform for their apps. That would be a very powerful industry force that Microsoft would have to think hard about.

Listening to Robert I felt that we are still early on in Browser evolution. The Browser is the platform.

(Aside2: Mr Google Maps was in the room asking about control of page layout “send me an email and we can fix that” - did what I think just happen - just happen? In a room in Warkworth? While I was in the Room? Is the world this small?)

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Comments(40)

    Comment by Raymond at 5:46 pm on 4 February 2007

    Nice, web based apps that can run off line. wont be long until there a Firefox OS,




    Comment by Bevan at 9:57 am on 5 February 2007

    Adobe’s Apollo (http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/Apollo) will be another player in this area.




    Comment by Julian Seidenberg at 11:05 am on 5 February 2007

    Here Dojo Offline Tookit can do something similar and works cross-browser.

    http://www.sitepen.com/blog/2007/01/02/the-dojo-offline-toolkit/




    Comment by Julien Couvreur at 9:02 pm on 5 February 2007

    Offline web applications are already possible, as demonstrated in my prototype TiwyWiki.
    My understanding is that Firefox 3 will add some convenient new primitives (events for going online/offline) as well core support for pinning items to the cache (better reliability).
    Dojo Offline Toolkit aims to provide a very similar set of features, using javascript and a local proxy. I’m sure that Dojo will make user of any new browser support as it appears, as Brad did with Dojo Storage.




    Comment by Robert O'Callahan at 10:07 am on 7 February 2007

    The Dojo Offline Toolkit is cool but it requires the user to download, install, manage and especially *trust* their offline proxy server. It also adds another tier to the Web programming model, something I believe that is best avoided.




    Comment by Michael at 1:32 pm on 7 February 2007

    Rod, I’ve not read far/deep enough to know whether you’ve seen TiddlyWiki; it is better, if you like, than offline — it’s /self-contained/. http//www.tiddlywiki.org/

    I know that SocialText have made their own version of an offline wiki using TiddlyWiki; I’ve not tried it yet though.




    Comment by Rich at 8:44 pm on 7 February 2007

    I was experimenting a few years ago with making the ASP engine from Mono work with an IE browser component. Could also have glued PHP and Firefox together in the same way.

    Strikes me that this is really Ajax + persistence. You could use any Ajax toolkit with some sort of local database. Ideally, you might want something like Dexterra to synchronise the local database against the server (a non-trivial task).

    Might ubiquitous broadband make this a bit moot - at least in well connected countries? (The impression I got when working in Germany last year with an online/offline system was that people expected it to be superfluous in a few years due to the client always being able to connect to the server at minimal cost).




    Comment by Rod at 10:41 pm on 7 February 2007

    Thanks for commenting Robert. Great session.

    I hope you do get to spend some time with the Google Maps guys. They are a fantastic representative user. If you handle their print control requirements - it benefits us all!




    Comment by Siggy at 3:37 am on 8 February 2007

    This will be a great feature, and yes, Julien is correct; there will javascript events for “now online” and “now offline” and a few other tricks (some of which are yet to decided and open to discussion … )

    It seems the IE team is looking over at Mozilla and seeing what happens with this, and once the hard work of getting the idea running and used in some popular websites, presumeably an IE competitor will likely emerge.




    Comment by Rod at 7:45 am on 8 February 2007

    Oh please don’t say competitor. Say compatible. Hopefully Mozilla pushes the boat out a bit further and then IE catches up with a superset so is a common way of implementing offline features.




    Comment by Buzzy Dizzy Biz at 8:31 pm on 12 February 2007

    Firefox3で、オフラインでもGoogleサービスを使える時代が到来？！…

    Firefox3が、オフライン・アプリケーションをサポートする見込みであることが……




    Comment by | Firefox 3, más cerca de un sistema operativo at 12:41 am on 13 February 2007

    [...] Rod Drury señala que Robert O’Callahan, programador de mozilla basado en Nueva Zelanda, anuncia en el reciente Foo Camp que Firefox 3 incluirá apoyo para aplicaciones desconectadas de un servidor. Esta función permitirá el uso de aplicaciones tan populares como Gmail, Calendarios y la reciente expansión de la versión beta de Google Docs y Spreadsheets.La implicación que el navegador pueda mantener y guardar documentos fuera de línea constituye el mayor desafío a la estrategia de Microsoft, que sigue intentando desarrollar un estrategia clara en este campo . Mientras tanto, la compañía Adobe, que compite en este campo con el projecto Apollo, responde a través del programador de Threecast,Ryan Stewart, que esta característica de Firefox 3 es irrelevante, ya que constituye un esfuerzo sin necesidad cuando Apollo (basado en RIA, Ajax y Flash) ofrece mucha más funciones.Ryan termina diciendo que ‘el navegador no es la plataforma. El navegador es el problema.’ Adobe incluye el comentario de Ryan en su agregador de noticias. Thank you for reading this post. You can now Leave A Comment (0) or Leave A Trackback. [...]




    Comment by Global Nerdy :: Firefox 3 to support offline web apps? at 4:52 am on 13 February 2007

    [...]  The answer, apparently, is “yes,” at least according to this post by an attendee at New Zealand Foo Camp (aka Baa Camp): Firefox3 is going to deliver support for offline applications. [...]




    Comment by The Tech Journal » Blog Archive » Firefox 3 to Support Offline Apps at 5:21 am on 13 February 2007

    [...] O’Callahan from Mozilla, who is based in NZ but drives the rendering engine of Mozilla/FireFox, spoke about how Firefox 3 will deliver support for offline applications. This is significant because [...]




    Comment by cenebris at 5:38 am on 13 February 2007

    Will it be only for Firefox? Or there’s some chance of having it under Opera, Safari, Konqueror etc?




    Comment by kottke.org remaindered links at 6:31 am on 13 February 2007

    Firefox 3…

    ……




    Comment by Offline Webapps at bsowell at 6:42 am on 13 February 2007

    [...] Firefox 3 to support offline webapps. This would fix my biggest complaint about current web applications. Sometimes you really do need to read old email offline.  # () [...]




    Comment by aboutthisboy at 6:46 am on 13 February 2007

    If you haven’t already, take a look at Scrybe (www.iscrybe.com) which allows offline access, although this is done by using Flash.
    aboutthisboy




    Comment by World 0.1 at 8:29 am on 13 February 2007

    Sharing my Firefox “Wow” Moment – FF 3.0 to support offline web apps…

    This morning started with a genuine “Wow” moment: On Read/Write Web, I learnt that Robert O’Callahan from Mozilla has announced that Firefox 3.0 will allow for offline access to web applications (as reported by Rod Drury). Obviously, some re-engi…




    Comment by Mark Beveridge » Firefox 3: Support for offline web apps at 10:14 am on 13 February 2007

    [...] Firefox 3 will support offline web apps [via Jason [...]




    Comment by warpedvisions.org » Blog Archive » Web apps without the web at 10:47 am on 13 February 2007

    [...] apps without the web Firefox 3 to support offline web apps? (via [...]




    Comment by Francois Orsini at 11:13 am on 13 February 2007

    There is no magic here - Enabling an online application to run offline is not that easy - There are business rules which are handled at the application server level and beyond that. One just can’t wield a magical wand and hope to have their online applications to operate offline with a few clicks away - Running some online applications offline, may also imply that you give the user / client to synchronize back with the application server, otherwise, besides read-only, what’s the point of going offline…

    There has been various solutions to empower online applications to run offline and again there is no magic begind it - The application provider will have to implement some logic to make this happen.

    A concreate and real example of some web 2.0 collaborative application having been enabled to run offline is Zimbra’s:
    http://www.zimbra.com/blog/archives/2006/11/taking_zimbra_offline.html
    (which is making use of the a trusted and signed local persistence store and service in the same way as posted here last year:
    http://developers.sun.com/prodtech/javadb/overview/product_tour/index.jsp)




    Comment by Stuart Robinson’s Weblog » Blog Archive » Web tech to watch in 2007 at 12:23 pm on 13 February 2007

    [...] web apps - just hacks for now, but with Firefox 3 support things should pick up [...]




    Comment by Bill at 12:59 pm on 13 February 2007

    People still go offline?




    Comment by colorsimple.com » Blog Archive » That syncing feeling… at 7:54 pm on 13 February 2007

    [...] there you have it– Firefox 3 is to support offline apps. Very interesting indeed. How many web applicatons have gone ajax crazy in order to hide [...]




    Comment by torresburriel.com » Blog Archive » Firefox 3 soportará trabajo offline at 8:05 pm on 13 February 2007

    [...] a lo que se puede leer en Firefox3: Web Apps Game changer. Ni más ni menos que Firefox 3 soportará trabajo offline con aplicaciones web. So in a webmail [...]




    Comment by Firefox 3 to support ‘Active Offline’ Applications | Vinod Live! at 4:33 am on 14 February 2007

    [...] Drury reports that Robert O’Callahan from Mozilla revealed plans to support active offline web applications in [...]




    Comment by KtecK Blog - Syndicated » Firefox 3 To Support Offline Apps at 4:52 am on 14 February 2007

    [...] O’Callahan from Mozilla, who is based in NZ but drives the rendering engine of Mozilla/FireFox, spoke about how Firefox 3 will deliver support for offline applications. This is significant because [...]




    Comment by Tools: Zukunft = schlechte Zeiten für Microsoft Office auf kubitz.net | projekte | konzepte | sinnvolles handeln at 9:38 am on 14 February 2007

    [...] kein Office-Paket programmieren. Aber laut Golem stellte der Entwickler Robert O’Callahan ein Konzept für den Firefox 3 vor, das Entwicklern von Web-Office-Anwendungen das Leben deutlich leichter machen würde. [...]




    Comment by links for 2007-02-13 - ghettocooler.net at 4:24 am on 15 February 2007

    [...] Firefox3: Use Web Apps Offline Offline support for web based things such as mail & calendars in FF3. May be useful, but these days, when are you really offline? [...]




    Comment by Firefox Bolivia » Se alista Firefox 3 at 4:48 am on 15 February 2007

    [...] pueden ir probando la versión portátil de este super navegador. Lo interesante de todo es que se está preparando de una manera super increible; según nos comentan nuestros amigos de Zona Firefox, la nueva [...]




    Comment by Rod Drury > Offline Webmail POC at 11:34 am on 15 February 2007

    [...] on from the Firefox 3 discussion, Adam emailed me a screen cast proof of concept of an offline web application [...]




    Comment by PWF at 12:23 pm on 17 February 2007

    Better to use .NET ClickOnce or Flash Apollo to build powerful offline/online web apps. These technologies built from the ground up for that purpose.




    Comment by zen geekery » Firefox 3 at 2:48 pm on 19 February 2007

    [...] Supposedly, Firefox 3 will support offline use of web apps. [...]




    Comment by Jay’s Weblog » Blog Archive » Starred reading for this week at 11:53 am on 30 March 2007

    [...] Zimbra Desktop launch. Offline webapps (oxymoron) starting to take off ? See also Slingshot for Rails and Adobe Apollo. BTW, Firefox 3.0 is supposed to have support for offline webapps. [...]




    Comment by jan.varwig » Blog Archive » Web 2.0 für den Desktop at 11:01 am on 20 April 2007

    [...] schlägt damit in eine ähnliche Kerbe wie Adobes Apollo, Firefox 3 oder [...]




    Comment by Web2.0 Effect Blog Web 2.0 Blog Technology Help » Blog Archive » News Roundup: Microsoft, Yahoo, YouTube at 6:30 am on 5 May 2007

    [...] interoperability with popular Web standards. Here at Webware, we’re more excited about the next version of Firefox, which is planning to extend the functionality of popular online Web apps offline too. (CNET [...]




    Comment by Alex at 7:07 am on 17 September 2007

    This morning started with a genuine “Wow” moment: On Read/Write Web, I learnt that Robert O’Callahan from Mozilla has announced that Firefox 3.0 will allow for offline access to web applications (as reported by Rod Drury). Obviously, some re-engi…




    Comment by Bedava mp3 indir at 9:57 am on 14 October 2007

    The Dojo Offline Toolkit is very cool.




    Comment by plastik at 9:24 pm on 25 January 2008

    Web based application working offline is a very useful tool I think.